As of now, the Knights of Ren have remained an enigma within the Star Wars franchise. Since Episode VII, we have known of their existence. However we still don’t know where they came from, nor do we know what larger presence they have in the sequel trilogy.

While many fans hoped to receive answers of their whereabouts in Episode VIII, director Rian Johnson refused to shed light on the speculation, again leaving them shrouded in mystery. However, recent rumors swirling about Episode IX seem to suggest that the Knights of Ren will play a significantly bigger role than they did in previous installments. Here are 10 things we know about the Knights of Ren from Episode IX rumors.

We will finally know where they came from

When the Knights of Ren were first introduced to the Star Wars series, they caught fans a bit off guard. No information was given about who they were or what they stood for, except for the fact that they were followers of the Dark Side of the Force.

Episode VII provided no answer, except for a brief flashback sequence that showed what they looked like, and nothing else. But if recent speculation is to be believed, then the Knights of Ren will not only show up in Episode IX, but they may even supplant the First Order as the main antagonist.

Kylo Ren gets his helmet back

Kylo may have destroyed his helmet in a fit of rage at the beginning of Episode VIII, but now that Snoke is out of the way, he’s free to wear it without fear of mockery. Rumors have suggested that not only does Kylo Ren re-appear in his trademark black attire and matching mask, but that his mask has been repaired, bearing a telltale red streak across its face.

If anything, it’ll make for a hell of a Halloween costume this October, but if these rumors turn out to be true, and he has finally re-joined his fellow Knights, it could also mean that Kylo has gone too far to the Dark Side to be redeemed.

They will include a group of red stormtroopers

With Snoke and the way and the First Order under Kylo’s thumb, it would make sense that the organization will receive a bit of a facelift. One potential rumor that has been spreading about as of late is that the classic, white stormtrooper armor will be replaced by new, red armor, similar in style to Snoke’s bodyguards.

But these changes may not be entirely cosmetic, as the red stormtroopers could be part of an elite class of soldiers, either meant to work alongside their white-armored comrades or replace them entirely. They could even be force sensitive and use lightsabers instead of conventional blasters.

We will know their relationship to the First Order

From the beginning of the sequel trilogy, there has been somewhat of a disconnect between the First Order and the Knights of Ren. While they must have worked together at some point in the past, there is no sign of them anywhere within the First Order’s hierarchy. At least, that’s what it seems now.

Snoke was likely the Knights’ leader, but what happened to them after he became head of the First Order remains unknown. Could Kylo decide to dispose the First Order entirely, and replace his generals with fellow Knights? Perhaps…

We will know why they disappeared

Just like Luke Skywalker at the beginning of Episode VII, the Knights of Ren have seemingly vanished into thin air. Or did they? For all fans know, they could’ve been working quietly in the background, or even hiding in plain sight.

Whatever the case, we may know why the Knights have not had a significant presence within the trilogy thus far. With everything coming to a head, the Knights will have to come out of hiding eventually and step into the limelight, or at least partially.

We will see their weapons up close

Of what little we’ve seen of the Knights, it would appear that they prefer medieval-style swords and spears as opposed to lightsabers. In fact, Kylo seems to be the only member of their order with a lightsaber. This begs the question: why would the Knights of Ren use such primitive weaponry in such an advanced world? Can they block blaster shots? And how are those metal weapons going to hold up against a lightsaber?

This may not be the first time swords have appeared in the Star Wars franchise, having first shown up in the Knights of the Old Republic video game. Perhaps this is part of a clever nod to the beloved game or an indication of just how old this secretive society truly is.

We will know how long they have existed

Like everything else about the Knights, the question as to how old they are is about as murky as they come. The swords could indicate an ancient origin, though it could also be a reference to something else that the series has yet to divulge. For all anyone knows, they could just be a group of Darth Vader superfans with a feel for steel.

Though the most likely scenario is that they’ve been around for years, perhaps since the original trilogy, or even before, and that the rise of the First Order correlated with their emergence from darkness. Either way, the age of the group opens up a gold mine of potential spin-offs and Expanded Universe lore.

Snoke may very well come back

Though he died at the end of Episode VII, his death has sparked a fierce debate among fans. How could such a powerful Sith, one with the ability to link two streams of consciousness together, end up not seeing Kylo’s inevitable betrayal? Could it be that he knew all along, and is planning on coming back in some way or another?

While there’s no indication from the cast list that Snoke is going to return, that doesn’t mean his death is set in stone. Fans were surprised to see Yoda make an appearance as a ghost in Episode VIII, so why can’t Snoke reappear in a similar manner?

We will see the Knights get defeated (or not)

Common logic dictates that the Knights of Ren will most likely cease to exist after Episode IX. Though, as fans have come to see, evil has a way of worming back into the Star Wars universe when it’s least expected. It is very possible that the Knights will survive in some capacity at the end of Episode IX, and may even return in a post-sequel story.

Kylo Ren, for all the talk of him dying, could also survive as well, only to vanish like his brethren Knights (think Frodo at the end of Return of the King). As such, fans will have to face the possibility that…

They could still remain a secret

The sequel trilogy has revolved around the notion of diverting expectations. Things in the story that fans think are important may be inconsequential to those in charge. While every rumor indicates that the Knights of Ren will make their grand appearance, all of their plot threads may not be tied as perfectly as fans would like.

Perhaps we’re not meant to know everything about the Knights of Ren, and that could be the point all along. The mysteries surrounding them is what makes them so alluring, and maybe that’s how it always will, or should, be.